[EDITOR’S NOTE: An excerpt of trial testimony of a Norfolk Southern materials engineer in an injury case.] 1 STIPULATION 2 It is stipulated by and between the 3 parties hereto and their respective attorneys at 4 law that the deposition on oral examination of the 5 witness, ELIZABETH C. GUYNN, may be taken before 6 Judy K. Taylor, Notary Public, State of Virginia 7 at Large, and that the said deposition shall be 8 taken in accordance with, and, when so taken, may 9 be used in accordance with the provisions in Rule 10 4:5 of the Rules of the Supreme Court of Virginia. 11 It is further stipulated that the 12 witness will read and sign said deposition upon 13 its completion. 14 6 DIRECT EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. SHAPIRO: 8 Q Would you please state your full name. 9 A Elizabeth Ann Curl Guynn. 10 Q And how do you spell your last name? 11 A G-u-y-n-n. 12 Q What's your home address? 13 A 260 Rose Hill Drive, Christiansburg, 14 Virginia 24073. 15 Q Have you just recently moved to 16 Christiansburg? 17 A December Ilth, 1994. Yeah. 18 Q And what was your previous address, 19 home address? 20 A 7408 Inglewood Place. I forget the 21 apartment number. Annadale, Virginia. 22 Q What's your present title or position 23 with Norfolk Southern? 24 A Materials engineer. 25 Q And you were previously located in the PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, s.w. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 6 I Alexandria office of Norfolk Southern at the 2 Research and Test Department? 3 A Right. 4 Q Have you had any position changes since 5 you've started with Norfolk Southern? And if so, 6 please tell me what changes in title of position 7 you've had. 8 A Okay. I started like in January 25th. 9 I was contract, not through a temporary agency or 10 anything, just -- or the regular contract union, 11 but just contract to do some metallurgical work. 12 They had a position open in Roanoke, so while I 13 was still in Alexandria, they hired me with the 14 intent that in a few weeks I would transfer down 15 to Roanoke. I took the position of materials 16 engineer and that's where I still am. 17 Q Was that your first position with the 18 railroad here, materials engineer? 19 A Oh, okay. No, it wasn't. 20 Q Let me do it this way, Ms. Guynn. 21 A Sorry. 22 Q Why don't we just -- tell me when you 23 were first employed with Norfolk Southern or its 24 predecessor railroads. Take me through the dates 25 that you started and changed any positions, the PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 7 1 locations you worked in. 2 MS. KONRAD: Like your job titles. 3 A Right. Let me see. I don't have it in 4 this one. It was the spring of 1990, they hired 5 me as co-op. 6 Q Co-op? 7 A Right. 8 Q What's that mean? 9 A I was still in school, and then you 10 work for a semester, you go to school a semester, 11 work a semester to get work experience. So 1 12 started in the spring of 1990, was at Bchool the 13 summer of 1990, co-oped again in the fall of 1990, 14 was at school in the Bpring of 191, co-oped in the 15 summer of '91, and then was -- then I terminated 16 my employment with Norfolk Southern from that 17 point. Graduated in the fall of 192, and then was 18 rehired contract in January of 194. 19 Q And your title when you were hired 20 again was? 21 A Was contract. BaBically a 22 metallurgical temp. 23 Q Okay. Please tell me what your college 24 education is, any college education or post 25 graduate. PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 1 A I have a Bachelor of Science in 2 materials science and engineering from Virc 3 Tech, and I don't have any post, any further 4 degrees. 5 Q Is that an engineering-based degree? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Do you have any specialty in 8 metallurgical matters in that field? 9 A No. I didn't specialize. 10 Q But you had training in that and other 11 areas? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Can you tell me the types of testing 14 that you did or have done as an engineer with the 15 research and test lab, particularly with reference 16 to metals? 17 A Okay. 18 MS. KONRAD: Time frame? 19 BY MR. SHAPIRO: 20 Q Just since you started with the 21 railroad, the different types of testing you have 22 done. 23 A They're all basically the same. I've 24 done hardness testing, I've done tensile testing, 25 mechanical properties, sharp impact testing, PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 9 1 evaluated microstructural properties, prepared 2 micros for that purpose. 3 Q Used a scanning electron microscope? 4 A Yeah, I've used a scanning electron 5 microscope, the image analysis system, 6 spectrograph, cordite measurement machine. 7 Q And we're here in Roanoke now, and you 8 were previously in Alexandria. Were all these 9 various machines and types of testing equipment 10 located in Alexandria? 11 A The scanning electron micrOBcope and 12 the image analysib are located in Alexandria, and 13 we do have that equipment down in Roanoke. All 14 the other equipment is located in Roanoke and in 15 Alexandria. 16 Q From time to time you would do analyses 17 on various tools, equipment, objects, and report 18 your findings to supervisory people with the 19 railroad; is that true? 20 A Right. 21 0 It's my understanding that typically 22 the Director of Research and Test Department will 23 sign off on a formal written report by an engineer 24 such as yourself. Is that the normal way it's 25 done? PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 I 0 1 A Yes 2 Q And I take it if the work you drafted 3 is acceptable, whatever point the draft is 4 acceptable, the director will sign off on it? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And during 1994, Mr. C. N. Scott was 7 the Director of Research and Test, was he not? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Has he recently retired? 10 A Yes. 11 Q When was that? 12 A October 31st, 1995. 13 Q Naturally when you write up a report 14 you try to be as accurate and reliable as possible 15 before you hand it to Mr. Scott for signature? 16 A Yes. 17 0 I want to show you a couple of 18 documents which were produced in this particular 19 case and ask you first, can you identify this 20 document dated May 12th, 194, with the enclosures? 21 A Yes. This is a document that I wrote. 22 Q And Mr. Scott signed off on this 23 letter/report? 24 A Yes. 25 Q The initials ECG, that's your initials PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 1 1 1 for the drafts person, down there on the bottom of 2 the second page? 3 A Yes. 4 Q And this particular document relates to 5 some testing that I guess you supervised with 6 respect to a particular sledgehammer called a 7 No. 10 Warren sledgehammer? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Who is Mr. Cothran? 10 A Assistant vice president of 11 maintenance. 12 Q And where was he based as of the time 13 you wrote this letter, May of '94? In Atlanta? 14 A Apparently. 15 Q Do you know why the letter was written 16 to Mr. Cothran as opposed to some other perbon, 17 for example? 18 A No, I don't. 19 Q And he was with the railroad at the 20 time, obviously? 21 A I assume. 22 MR. SHAPIRO: Let me ask -- let me ask 23 that this be marked as No. 1. We'll put the 24 sticker on later. 25 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1 PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 1 2 I was marked for identification.) 2 BY MR. SHAPIRO: 3 Q Let me ask you if you can identify this 4 letter and the attachment to that. Actually, 1 5 think it's a two-page letter. Excuse me. 6 A Okay. This is something I wrote. I 7 wrote this. 8 MR. SHAPIRO: All right. Let me ask 9 this be marked as No. 2 Exhibit to the 10 deposition. 11 (Whereupon, Exhibit No. 2 was marked 12 for identification.) 13 BY MR. SHAPIRO: 14 Q And this document we just called No. 2 15 was a letter dated May 17th, 1994, which you 16 drafted to the Warren Tool Company, correct? 17 A Mm-hm. (Answers affirmatively.) 18 Q And this letter had also to do with 19 that No. 10 Warren sledgehammer that you talked 20 about in the letter to Mr. Cothran? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Each of the letters involved work and 23 testing largely conducted by you on the hammer, 24 right? 25 A Right. PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 1 3 I Q And as you state in the first letter 2 here, that hammer was manufactured in March of 3 1983? 4 A Mm-hm. (Answers affirmatively.) 5 MS. KONRAD: Just for the purpose of 6 the court reporter, you need to say yes. 7 THE WITNESS: I need to say yes. 8 Sorry. 9 BY MR. SHAPIRO: 10 Q How did you determine the year of the 11 manufacture? 12 A It iS Btamped on the hammer. 13 Q And what type metal was the hammer made 14 o f ? 15 A Grade B steel specified by AREA. 16 Q And you called it a percussion tool. I 17 guess that's just a big word for a metal tool that 18 is going to be used for striking other objects? 19 A Impact tool. 20 Q Referring you to the first letter dated--@ 21 May 12th, I want to refer you to this paragraph 22 that starts with visual inspection. Many of the 23 problems that you noted with the hammer were 24 identified by you on a simple visual examination, 25 true? PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 1 4 I A Correct. 2 Q Such as the crack down the length of 3 the handle, the initials on both sides of the 4 head, the forging lap, and the excessive spalling? 5 A Correct. 6 Q As far as you knew, no one altered or 7 modified that hammer between the time railroad 8 officials obtained it and the time that you tebted 9 it, correct? 10 A Correct. 11 Q What is the AREA, please? 12 A The American Railway Engineering 13 Association. 14 Q Are you a member? 15 A No. 16 Q But the railroad iB a member as far as 17 you know, correct? 18 A Yes. 19 Q And that's an organization of 20 engineers, many of whom are railroad employees 21 around the country and also engineers that are 22 former railroad employees, isn't it? 23 A I don't know. 24 Q But you're familiar with one of their 25 publications, at least the AREA Manual that you PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 1 5 1 refer to? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And that iB a manual that setb forth a 4 whole lot of industry standards with respect to 5 various equipment specifications, different 6 thingb? 7 A Correct. 8 Q You refer to that in your office from 9 time to time, don't you? 10 A Correct. 11 Q Could you tell me what cleanliness 12 standards you're referring to for a hammer Buch as 13 this were with the AREA? You mentioned them in 14 your first letter there. I don't mean the exact 15 number. I mean, can you just explain what they 16 are about when you say cleanliness standards of 17 the metal? 18 A You want an explanation of -- 19 Q Yes. 20 A Okay. All metals have X amount of 21 inclusions. If they have very few inclusions, 22 it's considered clean. If they have a lot of 23 inclUBions, it's considered dirty. 24 What is an inclusion? 25 A An inclusion is a particle that is PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 1 6 1 non-metallic that you -- that is undesirable 2 basically. So the metallurgical cleanliness 3 evaluation, you use the image analysis and it 4 basically takes a field, it counts the number of 5 inclusions, categorizes them by type, and if it 6 has X amount -- the specifications give a limit, 7 and, say, if three is the limit for this type of 8 inclusion, if within that field it finds more than 9 three of those inclusions, it does not meet the 10 spec. 11 Q When were the cleanliness requirements 12 adopted aB part of the AREA specs? I think you 13 referenced it was after 1983? 14 A I don't know the exact date. 15 Q But naturally it had to be between 183 16 and the time you wrote the letter? 17 A Correct. 18 Q What, did you just break open your 19 manual and look and you noticed the adoption date? 20 Or how did you establish that? 21 A How did I establish -- 22 Q When the cleanliness standards did come 23 into being? 24 A They have a date on there. If you open 25 up the AREA manual, there's a date next to the PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 1 7 1 specs. 2 Q There are other AREA specs besides the 3 cleanliness standards that also were in existence 4 as of the manufacture date, right? 5 A Correct. 6 Q Which ones? 7 A I don't have the manual, so I can't 8 tell you. 9 Q Hardness, that would have been in 10 effect, right? 11 A Probably. 12 Q And shock resisting was already in 13 effect, right? 14 A Correct. 15 Q And those -- the hammer didn't meet the 16 AREA standards for those two criteria -- 17 A Which two criteria? 18 Q -- in some respects? 19 A When you say "shock rebisting," are you 20 referring to the chemical analysis? 21 Q The one you outlined on Page 2 of your 22 report which we we've marked as Exhibit 1. 23 A There are three. There are three 24 specs, AREA Bpecs. This is a chemical analysis. 25 It did meet the specifications. The hardness PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 1 8 1 range, it was outside of the hardness range for 2 three out of four measurements. 3 Q Beginning in 1990, the railroad started 4 requiring, what is it called, magnetic particle 5 inspection? 6 A Mm-hm. (Answers affirmatively.) 7 Q Can you tell me what that is? 8 A It's when you take -- you provide an 9 electric current acrOBs a metallic specimen which 10 creates a magnetic field. You put basically iron 11 particles, little iron shavings -- it is powder 12 and you sprinkle it on there. if there is a crack 13 or a seam in the metal, it disrupts the magnetic 14 field and the powder is attracted to that 15 interruption and it creates a line and it will 16 tell you if there's a crack there or a seam. 17 Q You refer in your letter to high 18 occurrence rates of defects as one of the reasons 19 that Norfolk Southern adopted the magnetic 20 particle inspection testing requirement, correct? 21 A I referred to previous problems. 22 Which -- 23 Q Let me look at what I was referring to. 24 MS. KONRAD: Yeah, if you could specify 25 the document. We've got two here. Okay. So PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 1 9 I this is the -- 2 BY MR. SHAPIRO: 3 Q I'm referring her to Exhibit 2 now. 4 MS. KONRAD: Exhibit 2? This Is the 5 language. 6 A Mm-hm. Yes, I did. 7 Q What types of defects were known to the 8 railroad? 9 A I would have obtained this information 10 from Tim. 11 Q Who is Tim? One of your supervisors? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And -- well, the types of defects we're 14 generally talking about are defects to equipment, 15 like tools? 16 A Right. 17 Q And one of the types of defects that is 18 being addressed in this letter is the type of 19 defect where there's a splitting off of some of 20 the metal or a sliver or something shattering on 21 the tool, correct? 22 A The type of defect would be -- for 23 example, forging lap is what they're inspecting 2 4 for. 25 Q What's a forging lap? PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 2 0 1 A It's where hot metal is folded over and 2 it is not metallurgically bonded. There's oxide 3 formed on the surface, and that oxide is retained 4 as the hot metal is formed over, so it's not a 5 true bond; it has a seam in between. 6 Q And that's a problem because that could 7 conceivably split? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And, naturally, in preventing these 10 types of defects, one of the concerns that you 11 would have and the railroad would have is to 12 protect the safety of the workers in general? 13 A Correct. 14 Q Norfolk Southern now does the magnetic 15 particle test on all the hand tools that are 16 purchased as of 1990, right? 17 A I'm not sure if Norfolk Southern does 18 the testing or not. 19 Q Well, either the company is required to 20 do the testing or someone does some inspection to 21 it? 22 A Correct. 23 Q And once Norfolk Southern adopted those 24 inspection requirements, whether it's the 25 manufacturer or the railroad, did Norfolk Southern PIERCE REPORTING COMPANY 15 Franklin Road, S.W. Roanoke, Virginia 24011 [Remainder of deposition omitted].