O,RIGINAL 1 V I R G I N I A: 2 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE CITY OF RICHMOND 3 4 BEVERLY J. KLINGENSMITH, 5 Plaintiff, 6 VS. Case No. LA-2993-4 7 NATIONAL RAILROAD PASSENGER 8 CORPORATION, 9 Defendant. 10 11 12 The deposition of MICHAEL J. GIRO was 13 taken on Monday, November 4, 1996, commencing 14 at 12:10 p.m., at the offices of Amtrak Auto 15 Train, 6006 Lorton Road, Virginia, before 16 Donna E. Mize, Certified Shorthand Reporter and 17 Notary Public. 18 19 2 C) 21 22 lung Technologically AdveaW NWrim 1212 Now York Avenue NW, Suite 350, WooNrow, DC 2DDM-39V Telephone: M2-842-3300 Fax: 2D2-842-3354 Litgaton Support Services Video Depositans i MD 1 -M9 Betfimare MD n 410-783-1380 McLoon,VA 703-W-M55 2 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 ON BEHALF OF THE PLATNTIFF: 4 . P. ., ESQ. 5 ., . & Shapiro, P.C. 6 1294 Diamond Springs Road 7 P.O. Box 5369 8 Virginia Beach, Virginia 23455 9 (804) 460-7776 10 11 ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT: 12 AUBREY RUSSELL BOWLES, ESQ. 13 Bowles and Bowles 14 Two North Fifth Street is Richmond, Virginia 23219 16 (804) 643-6768 17 18 ALSO PRESENT: 19 Beverly Klingensmith 2 0 21 22 (Index appears following the transcript.) BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 3 P R 0 C E E D I N G S 2 3 Whereupon 4 MICHAEL J. GTRO 5 a witness, called for examination, having been 6 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as 7 follows: 8 EXAMINATION 9 BY MR. .: 10 Q. Why don't you tell me your full name? 11 A. Michael J. Giro, G I R 0. 12 Q. What does the J stand for? 13 A. Joseph. 14 Q. And what is your home address? 15 A. 4709 Elison, E L I S 0 N. It is one 0. 16 Q. And what city is that? 17 A. Baltimore, Maryland 21206. 18 Q. I'm going to be asking you some questions 19 today. As we go along if you don't understand 20 any of my questions just tell me, and if you 21 don't remember anything or have a problem just 2 2 tell me. BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 4 1 A Okay. 2 Q. And that is the basic background rules 3 for the deposition. Who is your employer? 4 A. Amtrak. 5 Q. How long have you worked for Amtrak? 6 A. Fourteen years starting November the 7 f irst. 8 Q. And how old are you? 9 A. 4 6 . 10 Q. Tell me the job you held with Amtrak over 11 the years? 12 A. Auto attendant. 13 Q. What does an auto attendant do? 14 A. Here they do varic)us -- but other jobs, is you just have bid jobs. 16 Q. So you are telling me you're presently an 17 auto attendant? 18 A. I work in a sleeper now, but auto 19 attending can mean working in the coaches, 20 working in buffet. 21 Q- So by auto attendant you mean an 22 attendant on the auto train in any job? BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 5 1 A. Doesn't have to be on an auto train. it 2 could be on any train. 3 Q. And you have been doing that for 14 4 years? 5 A. Here, I have. 6 Q. How long have you been working in Lorton 7 for Auto Train? 8 A. Fourteen years. 9 Q. Before Amtrak what did you do? 10 A. Sales . 11 Q. Who is your immediate supervisor 12 presently? 13 A. Markus Moore, and I forget his name. I 14 always forget his name. Does it have to be one 15 or two? 16 Q. Just as you -- 17 A. Just put the one then. He is one who 18 called me. 19 Q. Do you know Ms. Klingensmith? You have 20 to say yes or no. 21 A. Yes . 22 Q. How long have you known her? BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 6 1 A. I don't remember. I don't know what year 2 she started here. 3 Q. And how do you know her? 4 A. Just since she came to work here. 5 Q. Do you ever see her outside of work? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Have you ever worked with her as a team? 8 A. I worked in a buffet with her, but, i 9 mean, I work with -- just because you have to 10 work, you have to work with whoever is assigned 11 to whatever car, if you work with three or four 12 people. 13 Q. Have you ever had any problems with her? 14 A. No. is Q. Tell me what you did to prepare for this 16 deposition? 17 A. I didn't do anything. I didn't even know 18 about it until the other day. 19 Q. So you didn't review any documents? 20 A. No. In fact because when he said to me 21 Klingensmith, I didn't know whether he meant her 22 or him. I don't know what the problem is. First BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, TNC. (202) 842-3300 7 1 when he called me over I thought something 2 happened at my home that they were calling me to 3 hurry up and come, and could you come next day. 4 He said I have something to tell you. 5 Q. Do you recall the day Ms. Klingensmith 6 was injured, May 15, 1994? 7 A. No, I don't. 8 Q. Do you know that Ms. Klingensmith was 9 injured while working for Amtrak? 10 A. I saw her a while later whenever she came 11 with a cast or some type of a bandage or 12 something wrapped around something. 13 Q. How frequently did you see her with a 14 cast or bandage wrapped around her ankle? is A. Well, the time that I saw her I thought 16 it was that day. I guess I got mcnths mix up. I 17 thought it was in the wintertime because she had 18 a jogging suit on, from what I couid remember. 19 And I think she brought her husband either to 20 work. It was either to work or picking him up 21 from work, and I noticed something around her 22 ankle, and I went to ask something. BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 8 1 I can remember that day, and there was 2 about three or four other girls and they came up, 3 and they got in a conversation, and I said I'm 4 out of here. I guess they are more important 5 than I am. So I went to the car, and I said 6 somebody, what is her name, something happened to 7 her ankle, and they said if you want to know you 8 ought to go ask her. 9 So I said okay I will. So after that I 10 said to myself, I guess I'll find out eventually 11 down the road. If I don't I guess it is none of 12 my business. 13 Q. T)id you ever find out anything? 14 A. No, I didn't. As I went down the road I 15 heard she hurt her ankle or something, but I 16 never got -- whatever the person told me they 17 said to me if you want to find out you ought to 18 ask her so I figured well, okay, you know. 19 Q. Did you ever work with Ms. Klingensmith 20 after she injured her ankle? 21 A. That I can't remember because the stretch 22 is what I'm trying -- I'm trying to put it BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 9 1 together in my mind. I don't remember her 2 getting hurt, and then the next time I saw her 3 was either like I said coming or going, coming or 4 picking or going. Either coming here, bringing 5 him here, or coming here just to come here or 6 picking him up and going home. 7 I don't know what the circumstances of 8 those were )Decause when I got to the top, around 9 to the top of the steps, I saw her. I just said, 10 I think, I said that day, hi, how are you, 11 something happen to your foot or your ankle, and 12 as soon as she proceeded to say, the three other 13 girls came up, and she started, and I says to 14 myself, oh, just forget it. Just go on, so I 15 did. 16 Sometimes other people are more important 17 than other people, so that is just the way I saw 18 it. 19 Q. Do you have any recollection of the 20 incident where Ms. Klingensmith reported slipping 21 on the train? 22 A. That I can't. T don't remember whether I BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 1 0 1 worked Lhat day, and I don't remember this 2 happening. T'm telling you the only thing I 3 iemember is when I saw this person, I thought she 4 was, I don't even remember. I don't know whether 5 it is a cast or whether it is a bandage. I can't 6 remember. 7 Like I said, when I got to the point of, 8 then I just got in the car and I went. I said to 9 myself, Mike, Mike, don't even -- and then as 10 months went, you know, people talk, you know what 11 I mean. 12 Q. Was that the last time that you saw 13 Ms. Klingensmith? 14 A. No. I have seen her come and go. I 15 don't know whether she was coming up. I don't 16 ask people whether they are coming up here or 17 going. It's there own business. I know her 18 husband works here. So I don't know whether she 19 was coming in one car or that she brought him 20 home or taking him. 21 In other words, if my wife worked here 22 she wouldn't know whether my wife was coming up BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 1 to talk to me or whether she is going out to 2 lunch at the Springfield Mall with him or 3 whether she is bringing me to work as my car 4 broke down. 5 I'm not the type of person to really ask 6 the people unless I'm realiy friendly with them. 7 I might say to my buddy, where is your wife going 8 or something, but as far as T'm not into asking 9 people, you know what I mean. Unless after we 10 are working and so and so says, yeah, my wife 11 came up today, and our car broke down, or she is 12 going -- she came up this way. She wanted to go 13 get her hair done, and then she is going to meet 14 her girlfriend over in this area. Then she is 15 going Lo go back home because cur other car is 16 there . 17 Just normal stuff, but I know, you know, 18 if you overhear somebody telling something you 19 know what I'm saying, buL as far as if I were to 20 see her here and there, whatever. I don't want 21 to go up to her and say Jenny, did you bring Jim 22 to work, why? Because you are going to the BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 1 2 1 grocery or, oh, when did your car breakdown? it 2 is none of my business. 3 Q. So she is just a working acquaintance, 4 somebody that you are not friendly with outside 5 of work? 6 A. Exactly. I don't know when she leaves 7 here whether she is going to get gas, going to 8 Quick Shop or going to the hairdressers, or going 9 to get her nails done, or going to the foot 10 doctor. I don't know. 11 Q. Are you familiar with the Princess dining 12 cars that Amtrak used to have? 13 A. I mean they used to have it. I work 14 here, yeah. You know, but I mean -- 15 Q. Have you ever worked on one of those 16 cars? 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. After the dinner is served and the trash 19 is cleaned up, where is it put for disposal, for 20 offloading with those kinds of cars? 21 A. The trash in that car was disposed out in 22 the hallways. BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 1 Q. So it is left lying there in vestibule 2 area? 3 A. Well, that was then. To me that would be 4 the only place to put it unless you were going to 5 put it in a closet. 6 Q. Where is the closet that you would put it 7 in if that was another alternative? 8 A. Well, the closet was at the inside of the 9 car. If you left it in the closet it would 10 probably wouldn't be so good because the closet 11 was for storing stuff. 12 Q. what kind of bags does Amtrak provide its 13 employees with to put the trash in these cars? 14 A. They provide like, you know, I just went 15 to Home Depot for my -- I'm going to be cleaning 16 up my leaves and stuff, and I paid like 13 to 14 17 dollars for only like 12 bags, and they are -- 18 probably because I asked the girl, I said these 19 are Lhe kind of bags we have at work. They are 20 pretty sturdy. 21 Q. Are these plastic? 22 A. Yeah. But you are talking, i think the BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 1 4 1 girl at Home Depot, she told me -- she said this 2 type of bag, because I buy regular bags. They 3 got a big selection. I mean garbage bags and all 4 what I use fc)r garbage at home, and you are F talking about -- they call that industrial 6 strength. 7 Q. Is there any kind of paper liner or -- 8 A. Most of the time in a place like that you 9 put -- are you talking about two industrial 10 strength bags, and then you put those heavy brown 11 bags? 12 Q. Brown bags or the paper ones? 13 A. The heavy paper ones that they clean the 14 streets with. In fact they cleaned their 15 neighborhood up the other day, and they are ir pretty sturdy. Do you have like two plastic bags 17 wi@h a lor of -- whether it is meats and stuff, 18 or, I guess, whatever, you know, glasses or if 19 somebody didn't finish their ice cream or 20 whatever, you know two of these into the bag and 21 @hen tie it up. 22 Q. go it is standard to use two of the BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 1 5 1 plastic bags and put them into the brown paper 2 bag and seal it up? 3 A. That is what they try to do. I mean they 4 still do it. 5 Q- When you have the brown paper bag and the 6 two plastic bags, is there any problem usually 7 wilh anything leaking out? 8 A. Well, let's put it this way. Have you 9 ever seen anything that is not totally leakproof. 10 I mean, I double them even at home, and they are 11 industrial strength. I have done leaves with 12 them that are wet from after the rain, and still 13 1 put them out by the trash can, and you still 14 have the -- and I had to secure it down the other is day. 16 That ain't saying the birds got into the 1'7 bag and maybe a dog from up the street came down 18 and thought he would see if there is a nice bone 19 in there or whatever for him. But, I mean, I 20 don't think there is anything that is, you 21 knc)w -- you pour a lot of water into anything 22 eventually something is going to leak. BOSSARD ASSOCIATFS, INC. (202) 842-3300 1 6 1 Unless you put a few of those candy 2 wrappers out here or a few dry plates, and we put 3 two bags in another bag, I mean, you know. I 4 mean, normally, I don't think they really leak. 5 They leak a little here and there, but they don't 6 really leak to the event, T mean, if they leaked 7 that bad T don't think Amtrak would be using 8 them. 9 I mean, like I told you I paid a lot of 10 money just to have them for home because I'm 11 going to clean some leaves outside and some 12 sticks off the trees and stuff, and if you put 13 them into regular bags like that you just put a 14 few tree sticks there that is going to punch 15 right through or that dog is going to come up 16 from up the street and put one tooth through that 17 and the whole thing will be ripped. 18 Q. Since you have been working for Amtrak 19 for 14 years has it been the standard to use the 20 brown paper bags with the uwo plastic liners? 21 A. Yes, as far as I can remember. I thought 22 that is what I remember when we first started BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 1 7 class when we were in the dining rooms. Yeah, you know, you take in a sleeper or you take -- 3 like we used to have coaches and, like, we had 4 two bathrooms before in the coaches. 5 Well, I don't think they thought it was 6 necessary to have two of those plastic bags 7 because all you're basically putting in them is 8 if Johnny and Sally went to the lounge and they 9 weren't finished with their drink, but most of 10 all was they washed their hands and paper towels 11 went in there. Or Lhe lady brought her four kids 12 and they had a bunch of candy or they ripped up l@ Lheir coloring book, or she was tired of her 14 magazine or whatever, you know. 15 I'm talking about more of the dry stuff. 16 Dining room has more of the wet stuff going in 17 there. You got salad, you got water, you got ice is tea. You got stuff from the kitchen, lettuce 19 tomato, you know, eating stutt. 20 Q. And I take it from what you told me that 21 you went to a class that taught you how to use 22 the paper bags with the two plastic liners? BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 1 8 1 A. Well, I don't know whether they really 2 showed us that, I mean, when we came on the 3 train. I mean, I would say I don't know whether 4 they show you in that class. I mean it is like s a -- I don't know whether you are told in class. 6 Maybe you are told in class. 7 That is, I can't answer that. That is so 8 tar along ago. I don't remember. I know when I 9 first came here though, when we got into the 10 dining room when -- I was the first class to -- 11 maybe they didn't show me when I came to train 12 that when we were in the dining room we were to 13 put one, two plastic bags in one paper bag 14 because we were in a wet environment, so to is speak. 16 I don't know whether I'm saying whether 17 they showed every class at the class, or when 18 Johnny comes and Sally is his trainer, and she 19 says now, Johnny we are in the dining room, now, 20 we are going to put two plaslic bags to a paper 21 bag, and now we are in the dining and you are 22 going to put plastic bags on there because we are BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 1 noL going to have as wet as we are down here. 2 I don't know whether they showed you in 3 the class like they are in class here, or do you 4 mean class maybe when they are -- when the 5 trainer is the trainer, and they are showing 6 them, or is it in a book. I'm sure it showed 7 something where it is somewhere in the class 8 exactly. 9 I know I had to be showed right there 10 because I was the first class. So a higher up 11 showed me or told me or whatever because there 12 was nobody below us to tell us, or Sally hasn't 13 been working here for five years. 14 So they didn't know. The supervisor l@ actually had to tell me because we were trying to 16 find out whether the bowl looks right there or 17 here, was it right here because we were the first 18 ones to start the program, so we had to find out 19 all the nicks and cranies, they call it. 20 Q- With the Princess Cars you used to have 21 did you ever have any problems with the 22 vestihules getting wet because of the rainstorms, BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 2 0 1 because of leaks? 2 A. That and all of them. They still all do. 3 You show me one that doesn't. They all still 4 leak, and that is going to be until the end of 5 time. And in the winter, I don't remember with 6 this one, maybe not as much, but in the other 7 ones you get, sometimes snow comes upon depending 8 on whatever. 9 Rut like I said, you put anything 10 together like that, you show me what could be 11 leakproof. It is not. Even though they try to 12 do the sealing as the best they can. 13 Q- Are you talking about between the two 1 4 cars? 15 A. It is totally. I'm not a scientist and 16 I'm not -- but I don't know how it wouldn't be 17 totally impossible for anything to leak through, 18 I really don't. 19 1 mean, your lid is down on your engine 20 of your car, but I have opened up my car many 21 times in the wintertime when it was raining, and 22 1 found rain under there, and I found snow and BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 2 1 1 the stuff because I just think it is a normal 2 thing for it to leak in. 3 1 mean, how many times they tell you you 4 got a leakproof trunk and you get water in there. 5 My shed gets water in it, and when we got it, 6 they said it is leakproof. You won't find any 7 water in that one. 8 Q. Did anyone ever take any statements from 9 you about Ms. Klingensmith's accident? 10 A. No. I didn't even know, like I said, 11 like when they came to me whether it was for her 12 or him. I didn't know what this was all about. 13 Q. So you're absolutely certain that you 14 didn't see Ms. Klingensmith fall? 15 A. No, sir. 16 Q. And you're also certain that you didn't 17 see her after the fall, to your recollection? is A. I reckon I didn't. T don't rememher. I 19 don't even remember whether T was working that 2 0 day. 21 MR. .: That is all we have. 22 EXAMINATION BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 2 2 1 BY MR. BOWLES: 2 Q. As I understand it you have no 3 recollection one way or the other of this lady 4 having an accident on the train? 5 A. I don't. 6 MR. BOWLES: I have nothing else. 7 You have a right to read this deposition 8 and sign it after this young lady has typed it 9 up, and you may waive the reading and signing. 10 THE WITNESS: What do you mean by waive? 11 MR. BOWLES: I mean that you can abandon 12 the right to read what she takes down to see 13 whether she got it correctly. Most people do 14 that, and particularly since you don't know is anything about this I would suggest that you 16 waive. 17 THE WITNESS: I don'L need to sign 18 anything, okay. 19 (Reading and signing waived.) 20 (Time Noted: 12:30 p.m.) 21 2 2 BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 2 3 1 COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA, to wit: 2 I, Donna E. Mize, before whom the 3 foregoing deposition was taken, do hereby certify 4 that the within-named witness personally appeared 5 before me at the time and place herein set out, 6 and after having been duly sworn by me, according 7 to law, was examined by counsel. 8 I further certify that the 9 examination was recorded stenographically by me 10 and this transcript is a true record of the 11 proceedings. 12 I further certify that I am not of 13 counsel to any party, nor an employee of counsel, 14 nor related to any party, nor in any way 15 interested in the outcome of this action. 16 As witness my hand and notarial seal 17 this .... day of C@ 1 1996. 19 20 DONNA E. MIZE 21 Notary Public 22 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES: 2-28-00 BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) 842-3300 2 4 I N D F X 2 DEPOSITION OF MICHAEL J. GIRO 3 NOVEMBER 4, 1996 4 5 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE 6 MR. . ................................ 3 7 MR. BOWLES ............................... 22 8 9 EXHIBITS: PAGE MARKED 10 NONE 11 1 13 1 4 15 16 17 1 8 19 2 0 21 2 2 BOSSARD ASSOCIATES, INC. (202) B42-3300